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Author Topic: How to scanlate (well some info)  (Read 7602 times)
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kano
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« on: September 12, 2006, 01:27:10 AM »

Here's a basic, how to scanlate.
It may have mistakes, or there may be better ways to do it, so feel free to divulge your knowledge - no doubt there will be some who know more than me about it Tongue
I haven't done all the steps ... I even failed the proofreader test that I helped a tiny bit with creating Tongue - but you don't need to be an expert at anything to understand the process ...

Since I also do colouring and traces there is a bit extra that happens but I'll skip that.

The manga raw has two releases: LQ (low quality) and HQ (high quality)
Most work is done from the HQ - I'll write this assuming only an HQ - which I think is correct for the manga that was under discussion.

Once the HQ is spotted I usually download it and make it available for everyone so that all the dialup and anti-torrent people can direct download (ddl) it from the archive.

Of course everyone needs to understand a simple way of identifying each bit of text on a page.
Most people know this, but, it goes right to left and top to bottom (with a few other rules for overlapping panels) but you gotta understand that COMPLETELY otherwise there will be a lot of confusion.

If you don't already have a naming strategy, an easy one is: page, panel, bubble e.g. P10 P4 B2 = page 10 panel 4 bubble 2
There is also text that isn't in bubbles, you may want to use T instead of B for them - though there are other choices Smiley
Same for SFX - maybe S?

Next the translator will do her work and post up a full translation without SFX.

The editors can also start straight away when the HQ comes out doing: leveling, cleaning, rebuilding, joining double pages etc.
This can well be broken up into X pages per person.
Obviously, no text entry yet.

Next is the proofreaders job to work out edits for the English - it's not up to the translator to provide perfect English - coz that isn't her expertise and also would be a waste of her time - she has to provide a translation that the proofreaders can understand.

Now - it's important for the translator to understand that the proofreader(s) will be changing her work and for her to not get to uptight about it ...
So the proofreaders make a list of corrections, but not to actually correct the original text, rather to list the changes
This includes grammer correction, punctuation, rewording Japanese-English into English-English and sometimes completely changing a sentence to make it easier to understand

Output can be something like this:
Page 12
-------
P6 B2: "Erruru smiled meekly."
P6 B3: add a fullstop after 'death'

While the proofreaders are doing their thing, the SFX translators job can happen. The SFX translators can be the translators or another group of people who will need some help from the translators (lots at the start and less as time goes on)
This shouldn't happen during the first translation unless the translators are not involved.

The SFX team should definitely be making a log of what kana matches what SFX in English to help as time progresses, but of course remember that it's not always consistent and often some kana will have more than one translation based on context

Once the Proofreaders have done most of their work they may have questions to ask the translators to help with the proofreading. This can happen during proofreading or after ... since after will also involve discussion between the translator and proofreaders to sort out any questions/problems with the changes. Probably after is easier to avoid problems.

Once the proofreaders and translators are happy with the edits and after the editors have cleaned, leveled, rebuilt and joined the pages - then the text can go in.

This can be done by one person since it usually isn't the longest job. If more than one is necessary (i.e. break up the pages among them) then you have to ensure consistency. Don't use lots of fonts - that just makes it look crap!

Now the SFX is still a bit of a mystery to me why it doesn't get checked after being put in - so I guess it should go in now also if you want to be able to QA it.

Next is the pre-release - same as the release but only handed out to the team to check - but really only the QA team should be necessary here.
The QA team may be the same as the proofreader team - but if you have enough, it could be a separate team - but QA encompasses proofreading as well as checking the editing (font selections, cleaning, etc)

Out of the QA comes more changes.
These changes can be stuff like (P10 P3 B5 - needs cleaning - mark at top, P5 P1 T5 - wrong font!) or more proofreading style comments or mistaken SFX changes or whatever.
QA is quite hard to do also, coz it covers checking everything.

Once the QA changes are applied you have your final release.

(Oh yeah - I actually checked that my team leader was happy with me writing and posting this)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2006, 01:30:35 AM by kano » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2006, 02:28:39 AM »

a visual guide for the location of each piece of text would be easier, although a little more time-consuming.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2006, 02:37:15 AM by kryss » Logged

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kano
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2006, 02:57:28 AM »

No - no assumption about the native language of the translator at all.
(In my case she's native English)
Is this cos you think that a separate proofreader is unnecessary?
Good proofreaders are also (very) hard to find ... few people have a lot of skill doing that also.

A good editor who can translate can (slowly) do a whole scanlation themselves.
With just 2 people: an editor and a translator you could also do a scanlation.
However, if you want a good quality scanlation you need separate people who are well skilled in each part of the above process:
Translation, Proofreading, Editing, QA ... oops - also Distribution

Oh yeah - I left out a rather important step at the end ... distribution!
Firstly a news page ... good if it is on the home page, not a forum thread.
Need a person or people who understand torrents and seeding (and of course CAN seed and do it properly)
Also good if someone can be a DDL source - they need a lot of bandwidth if the scanlation is popular
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2006, 04:10:00 AM »

sorry, i edited before you replied.
the bit i took out (because it was kind of stupid) was along the lines of: that assumes the translator isn't a native english speaker.

i think a proofreader is definitely required but any changes should be agreed upon with the translator, otherwise we run the risk of inaccuracies in the interpretation of the text.
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2006, 05:09:42 AM »

I have been doing a bit of reading on the Scanning part to make RAW's. Kano, what format do they normally suggest the RAW's be in? I scanned my first set using jpg, and now I am rescanning in .png. Most of the sites I went to wern't very clear. Thanks!
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2006, 09:32:40 AM »

Kryss - yes totally agree Smiley That's why it says 'Once the proofreaders and translators are happy with the edits' Smiley

Orion - yes .PNG is the best to use. It is lossless. JPG isn't.
There's a few reasons (these are my own):
1) If you use JPG, every time someone edits it then resaves it, you lose a bit of quality ... you may not notice it ... but over time if you compare the original with the final it's pretty obvious - though I usually can see the difference pretty quickly when others don't - not sure why that is - maybe I look too closely Tongue
2) The only REAL argument against PNG is that the files are bigger ... now if your a dialup person - well yes I guess that's sort of valid ... but otherwise - no reason - it's the typical quality vs quantity issue - and quality really is more important in my opinion.
3) When you look at a colour picture and compare JPG to PNG (if the original is lossless) you can always see pixel artifacts in the JPG version when you zoom in on colour boundaries (and of course they aren't there with PNG ... if the original is lossles) It really is the best way to convince someone if they don't agree - just try it Smiley

But very important ... if you do ever convert from one format to another ... the quality of the final will be the quality of the worst fomat used ... there is not way to undo using a lesser quality format anywhere in the process.
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2006, 09:57:42 AM »

a visual guide for the location of each piece of text would be easier, although a little more time-consuming.


hey kryss thats the one i randomly did XD...

btw kano isn't it best saving in .gif?

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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2006, 12:08:00 PM »

Gif is kinda crap to use. A big loss in quality.
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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2006, 03:58:27 PM »

Great Kano, now i dont have to post this lol

PNG-8 is the best for manga.. without a doubt.



Anyways I moved this to the tutorial section, since its kinda a tutorial.
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« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2006, 09:40:32 PM »

yea PNG is lossless so not matter how many saves you have it will not lose it's quaility, unlike jpg.
so you better keep a png as a backup and actually release in jpg, which isn't that bad. there is usually a quality scale for jpg, and of course the higher you go the bigger the image is. at quality 100 (which doesn't quite mean 100%, rather minimum compression) jpg looks lossless or almost lossless while usually smaller than png. png really compresses well where there are a lot of pixels of the same color, and also if the number of colors is forcefully reduced it would usually compress better (because colors like (1,0,0) can turn into (0,0,0) etc, and the image will have more pixels with the same colors. maybe I'll explain better later, I don't have much time right now), though sometimes the lower number of colors damages the quality since there are just not enough colors.
dithering is a method used to give illusion of more colors, and will generally increase the file size.

you might want to use the new format JPEG2000 which also has lossless compression (that is supirior to PNG), but it needs software from apple, which makes it slow and buggy. look for QuickTime Alternative to display such images, and ImageMagick can convert to and from it.

maybe it's a good time to start writing the "how to save images smaller tutorial", it will have better explainations with images and stuff @_@
we'll see.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2006, 09:43:10 PM by Nefzen » Logged


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« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2006, 05:04:08 AM »

Yes - one of the biggest problems with JPG is the quality % - it gives you the option of destroying the image Sad
95%-100% is OK - obviously 100% is better Tongue
(Even at 100% I can't remember ever seeing a JPG bigger than a PNG)
NEVER go below 95% (yes I also am ONLY talking about the final release, never use JPG during ANY editing or archiving)
Even at 90% you can easily see the image going into pixel bleading death ...

However ... there is one problem with pixel artifacts even at 100% ... and that is for anyone who wants to colour the images they get - not a problem of course for trace/colouring - but colouring the image files. Now that's pretty rare for anyone to want to do so it's not really gonna make anyone decide PNG when they prefer JPG, but it's also something that a lot of people don't know.

The reason why people only mention PNG & JPG (well GIF also but few people bother with it anymore unless they are doing a short animated image) is due to web browser support
Firefox/IE/Safari etc all support PNG, JPG & GIF ... anyone who dares to mention BMP deserves immeditate death Smiley
It may well be the far future before JPEG2000 gets support (but I will mention my complete lack of any info regarding support)
I don't know of any image viewers that don't support PNG & JPG - but if you use JPEG2000 for a release - you'll lose some fans due to them having to get some extra plug-in or a new viewer to read it
(My viewer I wrote in Java won't work either Cheesy)
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« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2006, 04:44:59 PM »

http://www.n-u-l-l.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
wikilation, part of the wiki project. a site dedicated to scanilations.
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« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2006, 05:04:59 PM »

I have to say that jpg quality values are not always the quality precentage values - quality 90 doesn't mean 90% quality.
using the Gimp even a q80 jpeg file can look very good.

png are very isfull for images that have a lot of pixels of the same color, for example:
(about 4KB)
this image would be much bigger in jpeg.

maybe you can have a duel release - one in jpg and one in jpg2000. though jpg2000 is better than png, it's can still get pretty big.
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« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2006, 08:11:11 PM »

http://www.n-u-l-l.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
wikilation, part of the wiki project. a site dedicated to scanilations.


Kryss, I love you for that link Smiley

That'll be a big help for all my newbie editors xD
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2006, 12:45:03 PM »

Well If we had experienced editors there would be more or less no work for the QCers..

But we dont..

Therefor I believe I'll be a pain in the ass to QC some of the first volumes. :/
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